Press J to jump to the feed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts
21 crowdsale... very confused

Posted by
3 years ago
Archived crowdsale... very confused

I bought DigixDAO tokens which are obviously associated with Digix. I was going to buy tokens as a way to invest in Then I heard won't create a DAO for the crowdsale due to liability concerns... yet I see mention of an ICO for "The DAO" on the blog.

How does "The DAO" relate to other DAOs? Is there a difference between initial "The DAO" tokens sold to investors and subsequent DAO tokens that are created within "The DAO"? How does fit in to it all?

  • Happy to report I am no longer confused. Thank you everyone.

79% Upvoted
This thread is archived
New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast
Sort by
level 1
Atlas Neue - Stephan Tual
39 points · 3 years ago · edited 3 years ago

Allow me to chime in as I see my name mentioned in the comments.

It's much simpler than it seems. We have build and made available a framework to build DAOs that are real DAOs, 100% decentralized, with only the token holders in control. We have also insured that model was safe from attacks by having luminaries on our team, in the field and even the same auditing company that audited Ethereum to review the code.

So that's the first piece, the Standard DAO Framework. With me so far? Good. For bonus points we even created a cool creation interface that's also anyone can use, free and open source, to create tokens from fiat, crypto, and we have had several exchanges support it.

We're standardizing the way things are done by using our skills and contacts in the industry in order to create a healthy environment free of scams and pseudo-decentralized projects.

Now, if that sounds like something ripe for someone to go and deploy, you'd be right! And several groups have already deployed tests or announced they wanted to use the Framework for their own organization, because it saves them time and money as we did all of the work. One of these groups is, and they are by far the most promising so far. There are others, we for example are talking to a charity, as well as the good people of Ethchamps to see if we can help them integrate that framework.

Now, separate to all this, we have UG, the business. We have clients like RWE and Electron. We also have cool projects such as the Universal Sharing Network based around the Ethereum computer we feel would be perfect for a DAO.

When a suitable DAO is formed, we'll submit our Proposal to that DAO. Because the DAO is likely to have a lot more Eth than what our Proposal will be for, you can and should expect other Contractors will want to submit their proposal to that DAO. It's all about Synergies.

I hope this helps a bit. Check out daohub or our slack if you have more questions!

level 2
Original Poster6 points · 3 years ago

Stephan, thanks! I owe you a beer.

level 2
8 points · 3 years ago · edited 3 years ago

Do you realise that if you had done a more straightforward ico you would have had a record setting crowdsale? This roundabout way of doing this means you'll be missing out on millions, or worse yet, massive PR.

Edit: I don't mean to sound like an arse. I truely appreciate your efforts at doing this the correct way. But sometimes the correct way is not the better way.

Trying to innovate too much is also a mistake. should set out to prove a DAO is a superior business model. You should not be out to prove that DAOception (a DAO within a DAO) is a good way to raise money. Stick with what we know ICO and focus on instead. I can guarantee you that you will raise upwards of 40 mil. Making it the biggest crowdfund in history and generating front page financial and tech news which is vital to a startups success.

The massive hype this would create for and by extension for Ethereum would be invaluable to our small world. Please, please reconsider doing the ICO in a similar way to Augur/Digix.

level 2
3 - 4 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma.
3 points · 3 years ago

/u/Ursium, I realise that things are still in a state of flux but can you answer these questions.

  • What is the Universal Sharing Framework?

  • Is a light client (not yet developed/released) essential for the Ethereum computer?

  • Estimated timelines for Universal Sharing Framework and Ethereum computer - 2017 or 2018? Please don't say 2 wooks.

For those who don't want to give your email to slack here is a link to archives of the slack discussions in the different channels .

level 2
3 points · 3 years ago

Thank you for this detailed answer.

I would only like to invest in the Ethereum World Computer, is it likely to be possible to withdraw my remaining Eth from "the DAO" that did not go specifically to that project?

level 2
1 point · 3 years ago · edited 3 years ago

Am I correct in assuming that investing in the crowdsale of 'The DAO' is in very simple terms just investing in a Reseller that will have non exclusive rights, and will be potentially in competition with other private resellers and potentially other DAO'S also? Also that is free to enter partnerships with whoever to generate revenue that is kept well separate from investors in the Reseller 'The DAO'?

level 2
-2 points · 3 years ago

So when the website said "Crowdsale" and the tag line "Subscribe to our newsletter to get notified of the crowdsale" that was all a lie?

level 1
2 - 3 years account age. 75 - 150 comment karma.
10 points · 3 years ago

This gets a little complicated, I'll do my best to make it simple.

"The DAO" is the informal name for a generic DAO developed by Stephen Tual and friends. The thing is, they're not running the DAO, they just created it as an investment framework for DAPPs.

Slock.It is an independent company who wishes to be one of many ventures funded by "The DAO", but for legal reasons they don't want to be responsible for both pieces.

So they have provided the code to the community and asked some brave soul(s) to launch The DAO, which will be autonomous and not linked to any entity.

When "The DAO" is successfully launched, will make a funding request to The DAO in hopes of funding their company.

level 1
9 points · 3 years ago

I think I see what this is now, somewhat surprising how incredibly unclear it all is however that is usually the case when someone is deeply involved with something who understands it completely and just is not able to explain it.

In its simplest form. created a template where anyone can create a crowd source financed and controlled operation. The operation can be a charity can be a bank can be an investment fund or any other use one may see fit.

In the case of a charity some one can take this template, invite donations in exchange for a say in where to spend or give the donated money. Today many people create charities solicit donations, people giving donations receive nothing in return an find out that the creator of the donation pockets a percentage of the received funds. Case use here is everyone sees where the money goes and even has a say in where it goes.

In the case of a crowd source bank, some one implements this template, people donate to it, then have a say in to who money is lent to and for how much and whatever else banks do.

In the case of the venture fund which I think is what is presenting here. Someone implements the template, calls for donations. people submit their donations, receive this token that allows them control of the venture fund as all above.

It seems the first to market will be this venture fund under:

The sold called ICO or crowd source funding will fill "the dao" as its temporary name is known as, with funds, in return donators receive tokens or control or voting shares in it. Everyone having a say in what ventures to fund.

As explained here this first operation has already lined up ventures to fund. But the ventures themselves have not said what in return they will offer for receiving the funds.

It could be a percentage of sales, a royalty, ownership whatever the venture proposes, will be submitted and the reviewed by this operation and its token holders and decided whether it is worthwhile or not.

What is interesting is where competition can come it. Call the above operation. DAO Capital Ventures V.E (virtual ether) and we call the aforementioned bank DAO Bank V. E.

The bank solely owned and operated and funded by the token holders (all those who donated to it to fill it up with funds), only does lending of funds against an interest rate. DAO Capital Ventures V.E invests against equity and / or royalty and / or whatever other methods and means it sees fit. or Mobotiq [ ] could approach either operation the bank of the venture fund to secure their financing. As one can and should today in the real world.

Right now there is only "The Dao" [ ] being implemented to which and Mobotiq could go to for funding. No doubt this may change in the near future as the idea catches on and demand increases.

This very first implementation of the template created is "The Dao" which is what every one will donate to and receive in return these tokens which gives everyone control over it. Once fully funded companies like and Mobotiq will submit proposals explaining what they need, what they need it for and what in return they are willing to offer. Token holders can say yay or nay. And if nothing ever comes of any of it ever. Token holders can vote to dissolve "The Dao" and have their money sent back to them.

Quite clearly at this very very early stage is in bold above. What in return for lending or investing funds will be offered.

The entire concept is quite sound more so for a charity in this day and age. As an investment or funding vehicle it simply needs to be tried to see if it will work. No other guessing or back of the envelope plotting can determine this right now.

Key again is when "The Dao" does become available, everyone can donate and hopefully be assured that in the event all this this is a total failure, they can vote to dissolve it and get their money back.

level 2
3 points · 3 years ago

hey Steganographics

Do you know if some group of people are already involve to create a charity DAO, I would love to get involved

The challenge of how to incentivised people to engaged with non profit project is something i would like to fight for

level 2
1 point · 3 years ago

Great summary!

level 1
3 - 4 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma.
5 points · 3 years ago

As far as I am aware: A DAO will be bolted to the blockchain; this DAO will have investors that acquire tokens specific to that DAO; the token holders will have voting rights on a proposal to hire the team to develop their scheme/vision; if fail to deliver, there can be a proposal to seek a contract with another provider.

There will be many independent DAO's specialising in their own niche field with their own tokens; there is likely to be a synergy between DAO's that enhances the ethereum ecosystem. I think. Please correct me if wrong.

level 2
3 points · 3 years ago

I don't know whether you are wrong but what you said sounds awesome.

level 2
Comment deleted by user3 years ago(More than 1 child)
level 2
1 point · 3 years ago

100% correct

level 1
7 points · 3 years ago

"The Dao" is really a bad name. There are plenty of other catchy and cool names to choose from. Adopting this pretensions term is wrong and even difficult for someone to understand in a normal conversation, given there will be many other DAOs.

More posts from the ethtrader community
Continue browsing in r/ethtrader
Welcome to /r/EthTrader, a 100% community driven sub. Here you can discuss Ethereum news, memes, investing, trading, miscellaneous market-related subjects and other relevant technology. Tags: ETH, BTC, Bitcoin, Augur, REP, DGD, ICN, MRK, MKR, GNT, DApp, Turing Complete, java script, how much money, time and money, new virtual currency, contractual dispute resolution, current market cap, core value proposition, CASPER, PoS, PoW, blockchain, Poloniex, GDAX, Coinbase, Vitalik Buterin, gas, fork




Created Mar 25, 2015

Subreddit Points

Donuts reward moderators, posters, and commenters for their contributions to the subreddit. They are distributed weekly and used to weight your vote on polls.