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[–]maaku7Mark Friedenbach - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (32 children)
Zane, this is many times larger than the block reward for the duration of time that has elapsed. Have you considered getting a list of transactions to blacklist and getting miners to reorg the theft? The window of time for that hasn't closed.
(If this happened in the last day, then that's 12.5*144 blocks = 1,800 BTC in subsidy. That's <2% of the hack.)
EDIT: To be clear I have no money in Bitfinex. Never even opened an account there.
[–]nullcGreg Maxwell - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (1 child)
Nah. The obvious and logical thing for the attacker to do in your example is just up the offer. Ultimately that reduces to RBF scorched earth but with some pointless disruption in the middle.
Stolen assets are stolen, the tool to get them back, if any, is traditional law enforcement.
[–]petertoddPeter Todd - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (0 children)
I agree 100%
The last thing we want is for the public to see Bitcoin as similar to systems like Alipay and PayPal where transactions can be reversed; responsibility for securing funds from attack rests in the hands of the exchanges holding them, not miners.
[–]zanetackett [score hidden]  (14 children)
Can you dm me more information.
[–]discoltk [score hidden]  (6 children)
Wow. That's a bitcoin core dev suggesting you bribe mining pools to rewind bitcoin for you. Dangerous precedent.
[–]Gonzotron5000 [score hidden]  (2 children)
Thanks, ETH, for that open door.
[–]handsomechandler [score hidden]  (1 child)
Eth does not have the power to open doors in bitcoin that weren't already open
[–]Gonzotron5000 [score hidden]  (0 children)
I have heard of people getting accidental transactions reveresed but not stolen funds. Has that happened?
I guess this makes the miners the judge and jury when it comes to btc theft.
[–]bitcoinexperto [score hidden]  (1 child)
After ETH shitshow, it this goes ahead I'll stop believing in the supposed meaning of the word "Blockchain".
[–]Gonzotron5000 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Me too. IMHO that would kill Bitcoin. At least in my heart. The block chain should be used as (part of the) evidence for the police to track down the thief.
[–]Polycephal_Lee [score hidden]  (0 children)
Who knew that blockstream people were in favor of controlling the protocol? /s
[–]_RME_ [score hidden]  (2 children)
I believe that he is suggesting a 51% attack to reverse the hack. Please do not ever mention this.
[–]mastil12345668 [score hidden]  (0 children)
no, he is not saying that, i believe what he is saying is for miners to not confirm those transactions, at least if i understand correctly
[–]maaku7Mark Friedenbach - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (1 child)
[–]Onetallnerd [score hidden]  (0 children)
You were against a HF raising the block size limit, but you support this. What in the fuck?
[–]ExcitedHayGuys [score hidden]  (0 children)
If miners roll back then all transactions after that point (many hours) would become unconfirmed, right? If so that would be terrible for confidence in confirmed Bitcoin transactions if I understand correctly.
[–]EnayVovin [score hidden]  (0 children)
A hardfork with bounty for the miners.
[–]kanzure [score hidden]  (1 child)
this is a bad idea because the attacker can do the same thing
[–]maaku7Mark Friedenbach - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not for the same valuation in USD.
[–]brg444 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Seriously, WTF?
[–]harda [score hidden]  (0 children)
I'm very sorry that people lost a large sum in deposits at BitFinex, but I don't think forming a mining cartel to double spend confirmed transactions is the appropriate response.
Miners: if you have recently matured block generation rewards (coinbase outputs) and you oppose the idea of a chain rollback, you may want to spend those outputs soon, especially at places (such as an exchange) where they'll end up being split into pieces and distributed to many other people. This will make any rollback much harder to do without some innocent person losing money (and without creating an accounting mess), and so may make it seem less legitimate in the eyes of the community.
Economic full node users: Bitcoin Core contains a "hidden" RPC command that allows you to reject a particular block. If you oppose the idea of a chain rollback in this situation, you may want to make it known to miners that you will use that command to reject any chain they produce that attempts to create this double spend.
Other users: you may want to consider switching to a full node wallet if you feel strongly about this issue, so that you can use the instructions above. Note, you have to do this before any double-spending chain becomes the chain with the most proof of work.
[–]Bitcoin-FTWredditor for 3 months [score hidden]  (5 children)
Is this proposing that we actually do what everyone has been joking about doing and fork to recover funds like eth did?
[–]maaku7Mark Friedenbach - Bitcoin Expert [score hidden]  (4 children)
No, as this is not a hard-fork. The security model of Bitcoin rests on the economic incentives which prevent miners from working on large reorgs. Those economic incentives go away when the possible gain is many times larger than the miner's normal income. This is a fully known property -- is discussed in the original Bitcoin whitepaper.
In this case, Bitfinex could promise to pay the miners, say, 25 BTC per block for however many blocks it takes to reorg out the theft transactions and replace them with a spend aggregating the funds off of BitGo and into cold storage. As long as this is less than a few thousand blocks, it makes economic sense for everyone involved.
One of the criticisms of ETH is that they didn't respond in a sane, social contract preserving way by negotiating with miners immediately.
[–]Bitcoin-FTWredditor for 3 months [score hidden]  (0 children)
Thank you for the response.
What if a non-negligible minority of the miners refuse to reorg?
[–]midmagic [score hidden]  (0 children)
"The miners" isn't an aggregating group. The miners in question would have to actively orphan other miners' blocks; in essence, this is building a precedent for, and paving the way for, a miner-vs-miner struggle against deliberate orphaning.
Most miners don't even have the infrastructure to be able to do things like this, nor do they have the ability to retool their infrastructure on the fly. They can't even upgrade/handle literally a tiny change in the nature of mined blocks thanks to BIP improvements..!
Deliberately orphaning miners who don't want to or can't participate in this kind of historical re-spend is going to make those people super angry as the majority hashrate then also takes their block rewards too.
[–]Onetallnerd [score hidden]  (0 children)
No. Seriously, no.
[–]the_bob [score hidden]  (0 children)
This will inevitably do more economic damage than the theft itself.
[–]jedigras [score hidden]  (0 children)
best idea on here but it also shows that asic centralization in pow consensus is a weakness.
[–]ilpirata79 [score hidden]  (0 children)
good idea... pay the miner to recover the funds! Go with it!
[–]BitcoinXio [score hidden]  (0 children)
This is a terrible idea. Please do not suggest this. Remember that bitcoin's immutability is one of its core benefits.
[–]strangecoin [score hidden]  (0 children)
This is a great idea. BFX will need to move quickly though
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